How Long Ago Did the Illiops Leave the HTFC?

[Deleted]

I was watching "The Mystery Unravels" last night and noticed that during the Illiops' flight from the Hard-to-Find City following the Gutang invasion, the author of the Crystal Book mentions that Theodore the Wise has safely hidden the six Crystals (presumably in the pedestal in the Pavilion) and taken half the medallion with him, ensuring that the Gutangs would never obtain the power of the Crystals. Meanwhile, it also mentions that "the Seventh Crystal has been stolen".

Now, we don't know exactly when this all took place in relation to when Teddy's adventure begins. It says it was in the "20th year of King Philbin's reign". Now if we assume that King Philbin was the direct predecessor of King Nogburt, then we can assume that this happened sometime in the last 50 years before Teddy's adventures began. King Nogburt is older, and, assuming he took the throne at 18-21, he's been reigning for 30 years or so.

If that is true, can we assume that Quellor is the one who stole the 7th Crystal? Can we also assume that it is through the power of the 7th Crystal that he rose to the position of Supreme Oppressor in M.A.V.O.?

If this happened long before King Nogburt's rule, then can we assume that M.A.V.O. was formed on the premise of finding the other six crystals and was always led by he who held the seventh? In this way we can suggest that the 7th Crystal was missing for quite some time, and was handed down from one M.A.V.O. leader to another, all with the sole purpose of finding the other six. Quellor's name is inscribed on the Black Box, so perhaps that device is unique to him, since he is the only Oppressor reputed to have used it on several occassions.

What do you guys think? How long was it between the flight of the Illiops from the Hard-to-Find City and the Adventures of Teddy Ruxpin?

I hope this will make for some interesting discussion...

Happy Thanksgiving!

[kaylathehedgehog]

I love topics like these. Epileptic trees FTW!

I always assumed that the Gutangs captured the HTFC several centuries before the start of the series.

If it had been only fifty years or so, why couldn't Arin, Aruzia, or Queen Lillibet read the Crystal Book? I can't imagine a language becoming that obscure in only fifty or so years. Surely if Philbin was King Nogbert's predecessor, he would've taught him the alphabet used in the book.

Also, was it ever said that Quellor was the one who created the Black Box? Who's to say that Quellor's the first Supreme Oppressor? It's already been shown that whoever's in possession of the Black Box is the Supreme Oppressor. I mean, we had Quellor, LB, and the Understander as Supreme Oppressor in the span of a few episodes. Not to mention, Tweeg of all people, had a stint as Supreme Oppressor at one point in the series. For all we know, Quellor hijacked the Black Box from whoever had it before, much like the Understander hijacked it from him.

[Deleted]

Kayla,
Glad to see someone respond to this. I was beginning to think everyone had lost interest.
You make a good point about the Crystal Book. I had forgotten about the language being that old. Arin himself does mention that the book is "almost as old as the castle itself". This would support your theory about the Gutang invasion taking place hundreds of years before Teddy found the Crystal Book.
As far as the Black Box, L.B. mentions that when he found it, it had the words "Property of Quellor" inscribed on it. I don't know that Quellor would've inscribed his name on the device if it had been passed down to him. I always thought that it was the crystal that was passed down to the Supreme Oppressor, and Quellor either invented or discovered a device to use it's powers for his own ends. Think of who Quellor would've had to extort or punish to build such a devious contraption! Once the Crystal was stored in the Black Box, though, the Box became the symbol of authority in M.A.V.O.
Just a few thoughts. I'm glad someone else is as curious about this as I am. I love the depth of this universe: it so much fun to speculate and explore!

[kaylathehedgehog]

Hm, you make a valid point about the Black Box.

While I still believe that Quellor isn't the original Supreme Oppressor, perhaps he was the first to discover the power of the seventh crystal. Of course, this is all dependent on just how old Quellor is. I always assumed he was fairly young, but now that I think about it, he could be hundreds of years old. If he is that old, he may very well had been the one to start the whole Black Box = Supreme Oppressor schtick. MAVO could've already been established, but Quellor took over via the Black Box.

Of course, there's always the possibility that Quellor stole the crystal from whoever stole it originally. As for the inscription on the box, it wouldn't be out of character for Quellor. What better way to say "Mine!" than writing one's name on something? It always seemed, to me at least, that Quellor could be quite petty if he wanted to be.

[Deleted]

I don't think Quellor was the original Supreme Oppressor. I just think he may have created the Black Box. I envision the previous Supreme Oppressors as possessing the 7th Crystal, but with no real way to use it. Then Quellor is named Supreme Oppressor (either by having the Crystal passed down to him [or, more likely, stealing it]). He seeks out Grundo's greatest inventor (probably not Gimmick, but perhaps a rival of his) to create a device that could use the Crystal's power. Thus, the Black Box is created and becomes the symbol of leadership in M.A.V.O. Just some thoughts, of course. We don't know for sure. The fun in this is the multitude of possibilities!

I envision Quellor to be somewhere between 40-50 years old...possibly older. I never thought about him being centuries old, though that is certainly a possibility and could link him to the theft of the 7th Crystal from the Hard-to-Find City.

Quellor is one of my favorite villains of all time, and I love to muse about where he came from and what/who he really is.

My brother brought up an interesting idea that Quellor is perhaps some evolved form of Illiop. Perhaps he is one of the Illiops that fled north after the Gutang invasion, perhaps a part of a rebellious group of Illiops that did not agree with Theodore's philosophy and sought to use the Crystals for their own ends. He is (presumably) hairless, and judging from the X-Ray shot we get of him in Ying when his lightning contraption malfunctions, his horns seem to be a decoration of his hood rather than part of his anatomy (something I never realized before). This would also explain his obsession with Illiops and the Crystals themselves.

Again, just speculation. This is fun!

[kaylathehedgehog]

Perhaps an Illiop that wanted to stay and fight off the Gutangs, but was overruled?

It makes you wonder though. What would the repercussions be if an Illiop did turn to the dark side?

[Deleted]

That's a concept I would LOVE to see explored.

It's usually done with almost any hero. There's usually a foil of some kind, if not a nemesis, that shows us what it would be like if our hero had chosen otherwise.

In Buffy the Vampire Slayer, the character of Faith shows us what would happen if Buffy chose to use her powers to indulge herself. In Greek mythology you have gods that are there to serve the people, and gods who simply use the human race to entertain themselves.

If not Quellor, then it would be interesting to see another Illiop introduced to explore what would happen if an Illiop chose to use the Crystals for his own selfish purposes.

[kaylathehedgehog]

While I can't think of it to happen any other way besides getting zapped by the Black Box, wouldn't it be interesting if the Illiop in question happened to be Teddy himself? I've actually been playing around with such a concept.

I've always been of the opinion that Grundo would be in very deep trouble if Teddy ever did flip. Going by the episode "MAVO Costume Ball" alone, he possesses a very sharp cleverness and rather good athleticism. It wouldn't be hard to imagine that he'd be even more of a threat than Quellor himself.

[Deleted]

I agree.

There's a reason the Crystals were always kept in Illiop hands. They knew all the secrets of how to unlock their powers and something in their nature made them the perfect keepers of these magic stones.

Putting the Crystals in the hands of an evil Illiop would almost certainly spell the end of Grundo.

[kaylathehedgehog]

Okay, as soon as finals are over, I will start trying to catch that plot bunny.

It makes you wonder though. Could the Illiops have been a race of magic users? I think Legendbourne was toying around with the concept.

[Legendbournageddon]

Nature magic in particular I think. I was indeed thinking of them being magic-user but only as far as shamanism goes.

I would have you believe that the Illiops' exodus was several months after Teddy was born and that both he and Illana were refugees from the city. Burl stayed behind to help defend both the city and the seventh crystal that was in his possession at the time.

The series seems to suggest that it was several centuries ago but I cannot be sure!

Oh, and Vilicles... <throws a paper ball as your head - *dink*> that's for thinking people were losing interest. I have trouble getting online these days, that's all. LOL

[Legendbournageddon]

PLOT BUNNY TIME:

Quellor's darkness lingers on in those who were not freed from the curse. Some Illiops have now got blackened fur and crimson eyes. Insanity rules their minds...

If I said 'Shabaal', people will then nod and recognise.

[Deleted]

lol! Legendbourne! Forgive me. It's great to hear from other fans on this.

As Kayla suggested, it seems unlikely that the series took place too soon after the exodus from the Hard-to-Find City as no one seems to remember the Crystal Book or the language used in it.

But who knows...

Also, I found an online copy of the Costco ad mentioned by other fans with a picture of Ken Forsse himself. I will try to find it again and post a link.

Let's keep this going!

[kaylathehedgehog]

Something I've been curious about? Just what kind of alliance does MAVO have with the Gutangs? Could the Gutangs be considered MAVO's Air Force?

[Legendbournageddon]

I'm tempted to believe that, with Quellor's percieved supernatural origins, he *actually created* them as his 'perfect race' to take over Grundo centuries ago. He deemed the attempt a failure due to their xenophobia back-firing on him. I'm also tempted to believe with some mirth that the Gutang primarly lair was Quellor's first dark sanctum.

This is my material again so don't take it as canon, okay?