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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2012 8:13:40 GMT -7
I know that MAVO, in the book-and-tape series, was originally intended to be a bunch of no-hoping bumblers in the same vein as Tweeg is, but the more I think about it, the more I like the way MAVO turned out in the TV series, even though that was the result of executive meddling. In fact, it's the rebellion against the executive meddling that makes this the case, rather than the executive meddling itself! From everything that I've read, though, it seems that this may have been an unintentional side-effect. As well all know, in life, things are rarely black-and-white, yet, in cartoons - particularly those of the 1980s and early 1990s - things are often exactly that. Personally, I often find some anti-hero type characters, as well as some outright villains, to be quite interesting, because they break this tradition and abandon this black-and-white approach for shades of grey. After all, though their values may be askew, they are almost always still sentient, sapient beings, with more to them than just being evil for the sake of it! Though doing bad deeds for the sake of being bad was often the motivation for MAVO's wrongdoing in the TV series, the effect of adding the slapstick moments, the organisation's comically true-to-life bureaucracy, and, in particular, Quellor's occasional snarky comments about Tweeg or Tweeg's behaviour, serves to give a bit of the shades of grey aspect to MAVO and its management. I quite like this, as it makes MAVO a less two-dimensional group, and shows their "human" side, and some of the small ways in which they are, in fact, the same as the heroes. It's only a shame, I think, that their motivation was too often just being evil! I feel that this detracted a little bit from why they wanted the crystals never to fall into the hands (paws?) of an Illiop. To give another example, to my mind, it also detracts a bit from speculation about Quellor's origins (as well as those of some of the other MAVO members) - what's the other side of the story? How did he come to be the Supreme Oppressor he became, and why? Were there some influences somewhere along the line that might have given him (or those before him) a good reason to hold something against Illiops? I'm sure that if the series, or one similar to it, was being made now, this shades of grey thing would be expanded on, but nowadays all we can do is speculate about it.  Does anyone else wonder about this stuff, or share this view? Or do you not like the TV show's take on MAVO at all? Whatever your point of view, why do you see it that way? What do you think? I'd love to know! |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2012 9:37:46 GMT -7
I too wonder about things like this. I mean, from what is said in the show, MAVO is opposed to Illiops, because Illiops are decent, never doing bad things, friendly people, and MAVO sees that as a threat to their continued existence. However, how MAVO knew about Illiops in the first place is a mystery. Did something happen in the distant past, maybe, prior to the Gutangs conquering the Hard to Find City, that made MAVO the enemy of the Illiops? Or did Quellor (or one of his predecessors), just have a bad experience with an Illiop, and now blames the entire race?
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Post by TRO Admin on Apr 8, 2012 12:42:22 GMT -7
Great discussion, Cyborg  I like MAVO but don't completely agree with the way the TV execs took it. The writers did the best they could with it. As you pointed out, 80's cartoons all had their classic evil bad guy, and that's where Quellor came in. Quellor moreso than MAVO itself was actually the invention of the TV people. MAVO always existed in AlchemyII's plans, but would've been simply a organization full of Tweeg, LB and Eleanor types. It took on a more serious role mainly because of Quellor. There weren't too many other bad guys in the organization that were any good at being Bad. The Gutangs were supposed to be the more serious bad guys, and due to the inclusion of MAVO I think that gets a bit muddled. The one part of MAVO I'm thrilled that was included -as is - is Ickley Bognostraclum. There isn't ever a time when I hear someone in my company talking about rules and regulations that I don't think of Ickley citing paragraph and verse of the MAVO handbook and smile. Not that rules are a bad thing - but people who worry about the completely pointless ones will always be around and Ickley will be a timeless character because of that. So - loved MAVO and most of what it was about in the TV series was close to the original vision, I believe. Quellor was a great character though, a testament to the level of competency of the creative people involved in this storyline. When they were forced to put something in they didn't really want there, they at least made it their own and were as original as possible with the strict formula they were given to abide by. Quellor does exist in the universe now though, and isn't forgotten. I believe he will have some humorous things to do yet as well as villainous ones  |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2012 13:29:11 GMT -7
Some of my favourite Quellor scenes were when he was making a complete fool of himself. Like, in "Teddy's Birthday", when he, Sludge, Drudge and Trudge were trying to make gold out of buttermilk from the "recipe" Tweeg gave him. Lol. And then at the end, despite his admonition that Tweeg wouldn't dare give him false information, he realized that he'd been had, and Tweeg had made a fool out of him, again. Though this time it was intentional. Definitely a bad moment for Quellor, when the villain who sucks at being a villain, beat the supposedly most fearsome villain in all of Grundo.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2012 15:05:51 GMT -7
Great discussion, Cyborg Thankyou. It's been on my mind for a little while, so I figured that posting it might be a good idea. Really? I must admit, the Gutangs always came off seeming a bit comical to me, at least in the TV series, haha... I take it that Bognostraclum was meant to be this way in the book-and-tape series, too, then? Ickley is, hands-down, one of the best MAVO members - no doubt about it. He embodies the silliness of modern bureaucracy perfectly now, just as much as he did in the 1980s. You're definitely right that he's a timeless character. He's a good example of MAVO's "human side", too, come to think of it... Who hasn't known someone like that at some point in their lives? All of the stuff relating to taxes and MAVO membership dues falls under the same banner, too, of course! Absolutely. It's for this reason that I always wondered where he was in the book-and-tape sets, funnily enough - it just never occurred to me, when I was younger, that someone else had deemed that he should be included in the TV series. Oh man, that has GOT to be the best thing I've heard all day. I really can't imagine the Teddy Ruxpin universe without him, and I had sort of prepared myself for him to be exorcised from any comeback in favour of the "Bunch of Tweegs" approach. Some of my favourite Quellor scenes were when he was making a complete fool of himself. Like, in "Teddy's Birthday", when he, Sludge, Drudge and Trudge were trying to make gold out of buttermilk from the "recipe" Tweeg gave him. Lol. And then at the end, despite his admonition that Tweeg wouldn't dare give him false information, he realized that he'd been had, and Tweeg had made a fool out of him, again. Though this time it was intentional. Definitely a bad moment for Quellor, when the villain who sucks at being a villain, beat the supposedly most fearsome villain in all of Grundo. Another fantastic Quellor moment! It's the fact that he even *has* such moments that makes him a likable villain, I think. Too many villains from back then don't, and, well, how many of them do we collectively remember? Not many, I'd wager! |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2012 16:25:08 GMT -7
There's only two memorable cartoon villains I can think of from that era, besides Quellor. Doctor Claw from Inspector Gadget, and Lord No Heart from Care Bears. Beaster from My Pet Monster doesn't come close, because he was just a monster, and not a very bright one at that. But, Doctor Claw ruled an evil organization like Quellor, and No Heart, had a really cool look.
Bognostroclum is definitely a timeless character. At one point, even Quellor told him to give it up and bend the rules a little bit. Kinda sad when the big cheese himself is telling his majordomo to put a sock in it.
Tweeg may have had some great scenes, but in the episodes where MAVO played a part, whether it was prominent or not, Quellor always stole the show. Another of my favourite scenes, is when Quellor and Teddy sing a duet from their respective cells in the MAVO dungeon.
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Post by kaylathehedgehog on Apr 9, 2012 9:23:20 GMT -7
Ah, Ickley. The TR-verse's poster boy for Lawful Evil.
I can't help feeling sorry for Quellor. Aside from a few members and the Gutangs, what he's really running is little more than a daycare center.
My favorite Quellor quote: (after Drudge, Sludge, and Trudge get tricked by Tweeg) How could you fools be fooled by such a complete fool?
I laughed longer and harder than I should have at that line.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2012 10:01:21 GMT -7
I remember that line. I just can't remember what episode it's from. Lol. I think my most favourite Quellor scene would have to be in "The Mushroom Forest", where he's talking to the Gutang Ambassador, and they're making a deal for the Gutangs to search Grundo for Teddy Ruxpin and his friends. The ambassador mentions doing it for a price, and Quellor asks him if the Gutangs are ever evil for the fun of it. The ambassador replies that they do, but it costs extra. Lol.
I also find it interesting that while MAVO members are encouraged to lie, cheat and steal, they get punished from lying, cheating and stealing from a fellow MAVO member, and especially if they lie to, steal from, and cheat Quellor. I just find it ironic that an organization made up monsters, and villains, get mad when they're lied to, stolen from and cheated on by someone else. Lol.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2012 10:26:38 GMT -7
^ That last part is the very definition of the term "honour among thieves". It also showcases their double-standards quite cleverly, in a way that is subtle enough for the target audience to understand, without a vast explanation of the meaning of the term itself.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2012 11:09:12 GMT -7
Good point. Now that I think about it, Tweeg operates the same way. He can lie, cheat and steal, but if someone does it to him, he gets mad.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2012 13:30:44 GMT -7
Precisely. And that loops back around again to the whole "villains with a human side" thing - not many villains back then had double-standards or foibles like that. |
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Post by TRO Admin on Apr 9, 2012 14:09:12 GMT -7
Kayla brought up a good point we have discussed before.... Quellor is really the only really bad member of the entire organization. The Understander, while competent, certainly lacks the braun and bark of her boss and everyone else basically fits the Tweeg mold or the moron henchman mold. Imagine if Quellor were taken out of the equation... while true evil would be much less dangerous, the trio would have their hands full dealing with petty criminal schemes as the Drudges of the world ran around without any direction.
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Post by kaylathehedgehog on Apr 9, 2012 14:49:29 GMT -7
Just because one is evil doesn't mean that one shouldn't be pragmatic. Of course, being that the Gutangs are pretty much the only competent fighting force (an Illiop, his party, a completely out-of-left-field weaponized Octopede dish, and the occasional Snowzo notwithstanding) Quellor can generally rely on (if the price is right, naturally), he really can't afford to alienate them. I'll bet the Gutangs are well aware of and gleefully abuse that fact. Quellor (or Tweeg, whichever you prefer): Well, of course! Lying, stealing, and cheating is all fine and dandy, even encouraged, as long as it's not happening to me. Because as everyone in Grundo knows, its all about me, me, me! This could probably go for any other member of MAVO. For some reason, the Amoeba Boys from Powerpuff Girls comes to mind... I won't deny it. I love MAVO in the series. When not spreading eternal darkness across the land, they're so much fun to watch. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2012 16:12:46 GMT -7
Well yeah. Look what happened when Tweeg was MAVO's supreme oppressor. The members stopped paying their dues, income was down, and MAVO almost was put into the ground. Not to mention, the fact that under Tweeg's rule, MAVO almost made war on the Gutangs.
And take Quellor out of the occasion, MAVO would stop, because the henchmen and others wouldn't know what to do. After all, Quellor doesn't pay them to think, and even discourages all of his henchman to not think.
It's true. The Gutangs are a pretty competent force in Grundo. Mudblups can't function during the day, unless they wear sunglasses, even then, they don't have the brains to be very threatening. The Bounders just like to cause mischief, but don't do any serious harm, even if Tweeg tells them to. Tweeg himself is as incompetent as a villain as anyone else. And, MAVO might have the superior numbers, but without the Black Box, even Quellor isn't very effective.
But, the Gutangs have the numbers, the arsenal, the transportation, not to mention spies all over Grundo. So they can do anything they set their minds to. They even almost defeated the Trio, Prince Arin and Princess Aruzia when their Root Stew ammo ran out. And they would've, if that certain purple Snowzo hadn't shown and started smashing their planes to pieces.
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Post by kaylathehedgehog on Apr 9, 2012 17:28:33 GMT -7
Don't forget that if it also weren't for Wooly (or should we call him Deus ex Snowzo?), the Gutangs would have successfully assassinated King Nogburt.
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